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Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.01 07:36:00 -
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I love this topic, I think the debate is healthy and needs to be addressed very badly.
I have seen some folks say that how you act in EVE will reflect who you are as a person and I agree, no matter what you are doing, you are still going to be you.
I don't think I am the only one who finds it ironic that we have a sort of "high school bully" culture about the morality of EVE, some say that they have a moral code that they cannot break and they end up becoming victims of that morality because of the many scammers, griefers and gankers that roam around EVE just popping ships for the fun of it.
I have no problem when I get killed in EVE as long as the person has the decency to not take it outside the game, I see so many players that come on the forums and brag about tears or post about someone who they messed up just because they were mining. When you log on to the forum and brag about killing unarmed miners, you become a bully.
Just keep it in the game, you don't need to act like you just stole a kids lunch money.
Some of the posts on this topic make me think that some players think they are like The Joker from Dark Knight or some sort of cool bounty hunter type in a Mad Max inspired moral wasteland.
I hate to tell you this, but you come off more like a bully who beats up the weak because you think it makes you look cool for your friends, I find this ironic because we are all probably nerds and have all experienced the social problems associated with that.
Nobody has to change the way they play this game, all the ganking and scamming is what makes this game fun, but when you start taking it too far and people stop playing because you screwed them over...then you are not helping anybody and are just a bully and nothing more. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:55:00 -
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I think we have a problem with communicating the points here.
Nobody is confusing EVE with real life.
What some of us are saying is that when you go out of your way as a player to make someone else not want to play the game, that is pretty wrong on a moral level and makes you a pretty bad person in real life.
This is not about destroying ships or stealing from a corp, this is about behavior we see less in game and more out of game and on the forums, you act like a bunch of bullies who can't be troubled with the idea that other people play this game to have fun.
Fun that does not involve you.
When you tell us that you really are a good person and yet you talk about collecting tears like a a bully who enjoys to hear the protests of his victims, yeah you have some issues you need to work out. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.01 18:27:00 -
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I don't know, it just seems counter productive to not only go after the player in the game but to also make them feel like they don't want to play the game.
As I have said before, this is not about losing internet spaceships (at least to me) but it is more about the attacks I see in the forums and in local.
What I am trying to say is that no matter how unreal the game is and no matter what you think the game expects from you in terms of morals and ethics, it is still a game being played by people and that should always be kept in the back of ones mind.
For example.
If I decide that I want to gank a miner, I would go and find a miner and gank him, I would even possibly offer a ransom or something but I would do it in game terms, I would make it seem like something that would exist in the game setting.
What I would not do is tell them that I love listening to them complain and that it makes me want to do it more, I would not go on the forums and act like I am some sort of anarchist messiah who "gets EVE", I would not go out of my way to make other players think I want them to not have fun anymore.
I will say it again, I do not care about illicit actions in EVE, I do care when players take it too far and go out of their way to hurt other players or just make them want to quit.
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Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.02 00:16:00 -
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I don't think anyone is arguing that combat or losing a ship is the real issue.
The real issue is how you behave as the aggressor, do you keep it in the context of the game or do you resort to personal attacks?
If you resort to personal attacks than you need to stop playing social games because nobody wants your teen angst garbage, and no amount of angst ridden "morals are for the weak" garbage will change that.
All you griefers need to get over yourselves and anyone that says "I have deep seated needs to be evil that this game allows me to release" needs to get help.
Nobody cares that you blew up our internet spaceships, we do care how you act after the fact. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.02 00:37:00 -
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So you point and laugh?
That is really the only part that I cannot agree with, that takes things out of the game and makes them personal, that is not needed at all.
You make it sound like a school yard beating where if they fight back you just hit them harder. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.03 04:57:00 -
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I love how the griefers just tend to run the debate in circles because they can't seem to admit that acting like a bully in game is no better than acting like one out of game.
I don't think anyone will debate that EVE is a kill or be killed game, nor will we say that you should not engage in PVP when you want to, what we are saying is that you probably should cool it on the personal insults against the players.
Is that too much for you griefers to process? Do you need us to spell it out any more plainly?
We don't care if you kill other players, just don't be a jerk about it and "extract tears" because that turns the whole event from being about blowing up internet spaceships to harassing the other player.
I guess you are cool with that though...because you are all dark and evil and nobody understands your pain.
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Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.03 05:26:00 -
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Perhaps I am injecting a bit too much anger into my posts, I don't mean to and have very little reason to be upset as I have not yet been a victim myself.
I just fear that if this problem grows any larger, that I may have just started playing a game that is doomed to fail. I can't imagine that this game will survive much longer if the griefers make more and more players so annoyed that they quit.
I really think this game is amazing and part of that is the risk involved, but I don't think it needs to go as far as it does.
When I hear some folks on this topic talk about how they are playing the villain and that gives them license to act as they will to the other players, I just can't help but think that a good villain in a story is the one that is complicated and interesting, not the one that acts like a angry teenager who wants attention.
Maybe I am just not the right kind of player for this game, but I won't let that stop me from trying to have fun with my internet spaceships, despite the griefers best efforts. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.03 17:26:00 -
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I have spent some time reading the thread again and really trying to get a feel for everyone's arguments and beliefs.
I noticed a few things keep coming up that need to be settled as fact.
1.) We know this game is not real life, every player knows that and if they don't than they are probably already identified as mentally unstable.
2.) Some players do need to understand the inherent risk involved in this game and that you can, at any moment, lose your ship, your cargo and any implants to a ganker who is "just doing it for the lulz".
3.) For the most part, nobody thinks that any measures should be taken by CCP to restrict ganking or any other low or high sec crime, we all understand that the charm and fun in this game comes from the risk and don't want to change that.
The Whole "I can act how I want because it is just a game" stuff does not make much sense to me though, I have said it over and over again, I don't care if you blow up my ship and pod me, I do care if you go out of your way to be a douche about it.
When you blow up a ship and then personally attack the player than I am sorry, you are not playing the game anymore, when you attack the player themselves, you can't hide behind your avatar anymore.
Knocking someone down in a football game is par for the coarse, but it is not proper to continue to beat them after the fact, that is considered both illegal and unsportsmanlike. Saying "it is just a game" only applies if you keep your actions within the context of the game. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.04 05:43:00 -
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The Ecca One wrote:Bunch of whiny pussies in this thread, I'm just as evil in real life as I am in this game if not more so.
Such a nice example of humanity, wonder we survived the cold war with his type around. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.05 01:05:00 -
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And round and round it goes eh?
Some folks just want to blow up internet spaceships and that is fine, nobody who understands what EVE is will ever debate that the unrestricted PvP is one of the main pulls of the game.
I think folks just want better behavior from the player when this happens, there is a difference between taunting a players character with your character (oh noes! roleplay in a roleplaying game!) and actually taunting the player behind the monitor just to make the player angry.
I know that some of you who grief are probably good people who would never harm a fly in real life, but if you think that personally attacking another player so that they do not enjoy the game experience is okay then you really might need to take a good look at that.
I see too many racial and sexual orientation slurs involved to believe that griefing is anything but the player projecting personal ignorance and bigotry into the game and directing it at other players, not the player characters. |
Michael Holmes Holmes
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Posted - 2011.11.05 03:47:00 -
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Ladie Harlot wrote:Morals are for plebs. I am the 1%.
We can always expect such insight from you, it just gets boring. |
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